This essay, “On Great Conversation,” feels like an extension, and frankly, better expression, of some of the ideas I was trying to get at with Principles of Interaction. They key points:

• Conversation is (or should be) a co-creation of shared meaning.
• Good conversation has new additions building on old, whereas bad conversation replaces what came before.
• Bad conversation can take a variety of forms: parallel monologues, gerede (idle chatter that keeps us trapped in unproductive conversation), etc.
• Small talks serves to calibrate conversation, so you can adapt to the styles of everyone involved.
• Who in your life is a great conversationalist?

“The rabbinical tradition had a term for speech that diminishes rather than nourishes: “lashon hara.” While often translated as gossip, the concept encompasses any speech that’s ultimately harmful. Idle chatter can be understood as a form of lashon hara because it keeps us trapped in patterns that don’t challenge or nourish us. We come away from such conversations feeling vaguely depleted rather than energized.”

–Zohar Atkins, “On Great Conversation.” secondvoice.substack.com. July 1, 2025

Very few exceptions when you think of social media and whether it constitutes lashon hara.

“This is why conversations need onboarding time. Just as tennis players need a few practice shots to find their rhythm, conversations usually require several exchanges before participants discover their shared wavelength. The opening moves are often tentative, testing the waters. Can this person handle abstract ideas, or do they prefer concrete examples? Are they comfortable with disagreement, or do they need consensus to feel safe? Do they think by talking, or do they prefer to formulate thoughts before speaking? Great conversationalists are masters of this initial calibration. They quickly sense what kind of rally their partner is capable of sustaining. They might start with safer topics and gradually introduce more complex or personal themes as trust builds. They adjust their conversational style in real time, like a tennis player who notices their opponent is stronger on the backhand and begins feeding them more forehand shots to create better rallies.”

–ibid.

This is probably the best summary of the purpose of “small talk” I’ve ever seen.

“How many truly great conversations do you have in a week? How many people in your life can consistently engage you in the kind of dialogue that creates flow, where you lose track of time because you’re fully absorbed in the collaborative exploration of ideas?”

–ibid.

To tie this back to The Principles of Interaction, it’s pretty clear that good conversation doesn’t need to be with someone you know. But, if it is someone you don’t know, you have to go through the calibration process of small talk to get to good conversation.

Instead of focusing on why, what and how may be missing the point. You know if any conversation is good. The above provides a framework. If you don’t get to good conversation, then you need to think about talking to different people or recalibrating your conversational style or topics of consideration. It certainly simplifies how to go about improving your conversational environment.